League Of American Voters – Protect America Healthcare
more about “NBC & ABC Will Not Run This“, posted with vodpod
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August 27, 2009
August 27, 2009
League Of American Voters – Protect America Healthcare
August 27, 2009 at 9:41 pm
This doesn’t make any sense. Where is the connection between a lack of doctors and seniors taking the hit? How come it isn’t another group? In the bill it talks about end of life “preservation” for seniors – that means staying alive longer if they wish it to be that way. How can you draw this kind of connection?
August 27, 2009 at 10:06 pm
How many physicians do you know that are willing to take .20 or< on the dollar to care for the elderly. That physician did not spend years in schools and countless $$$ on loans to make less than your plumber. That population that is growing larger every minute as the baby boomers continue to edge into that geriatric care group? You are not going to fix their problems that have been in the making for years overnight. They have significantly more problems than let’s say a 40 year old. Without torte reform and less pay, why should these physicians stay in business? I foresee a huge increase in foreign medical workers, physician assistants and nurse practitioners. If and when I need care, I want a specialist who understands my needs.
They may have problems, but they are not shovel ready. There are many seniors that may not like the fact that their bodies are forsaking them, but they do NOT want to be put out to pasture.
August 28, 2009 at 4:19 am
“If and when I need care, I want a specialist who understands my needs.”
McN,
I’ll settle for one who understands my language.
August 28, 2009 at 4:37 am
No kidding. Have you ever had to call HP or Dell in the middle of the night and find that your contact is in Pakistan or India? They are speaking English, but it sounds nothing like what I am used to hearing. I am sure that they say the same thing about me. LOL
August 27, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Please tell me how you can make an informed decision about anything without having all facts. By the way, AllBarackChannel did a wonderful job with the one hour ObamaCare infomercial already.
August 27, 2009 at 9:56 pm
This is right on the money. This will happen here. Read what Rom Emmanuel’s brother said aboty health care and the public good. Scary but true
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2077365/james_madison_is_right.html
August 27, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Can’t wait for Zeke, Rahm’s bro to break his hip and then have aneurysm blow while he is waiting for a physician to sign off on his KennedyCare paperwork.
August 27, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Thanks for the link. It seems as though those of us who are reading the bill and understanding the utter nonsense in it must light the pathway for the blind.
August 27, 2009 at 11:30 pm
The issue here is with the pay physicians are going to receive. A pay cut will not encourage kids to continue to go through years of school and thousands of dollars. I’m well aware of that, and it is going to be a big issue.
But I still haven’t seen where this specific bill targets seniors? Where in the legislation does it say “we’re leaving old people out in the pasture”? Budget cuts would affect all levels of care. If anything, that quote you picked out indicates that seniors would receive more care at the expense of others.
August 28, 2009 at 3:27 am
Certainly you must understand that if the target population is going to receive rationed healthcare because they do use more, utilization, review and management teams will force seniors into receiving less than they do now.
Do you have private pay insurance? Are you under group or self insured? I work with private pay insurers and public pay insurers all day long. What do you think all this hoopla is over concerning death panels? They are not labeled as such in the bill, although they might as well be. They are UR&Ms. They determine whether you really need that CT scan or perhaps if you are too old you might just be doled out an xray. Rationing already occurs. Under HR3200, monies allotted (where they will come from, no one can answer) will be targeted for those that will be healthier in the long run. Very much like England. Example: You are allotted $50,000 annually in health care if your treatment will provide you with x amount of disease free quality of life. In this program the govt will use CER. Same thing…cost effectiveness. Who do you think has less quality of life on average? A thirty five year old or a 68 year old? This is the bullshit that is in this bill albeit a bit more combobulated and incoherent. That is why the over 50 crowd is going nuts. Who do you think has paid into the system after years of work? Come on.
Have you read any part of this bill? I honestly believe that you have not. Please don’t leave the conversation. I truly want you to understand why so many are fuming. HR3200 is garbage. There is no emergency. My rep has yet to read the bill.
If you need medical care today and you have no insurance, you will be taken care of.
August 28, 2009 at 4:35 am
I won’t leave the conversation as long as it is a conversation and not a yelling match. If Barney Frank had dismissed someone asking a question rather than someone accusing him of being a Nazi I would be seriously appalled.
Last week, Betsy McCaughey appeared on Jon Stewart’s “The Daily Show” (a bold move) and they had a rational discussion of the bill. She expressed many of the same viewpoints you are (in fact, she has been given “credit” for starting the rumors about death panels). Yet at no point, when asked to provide actual evidence from the bill, was she able to summon up a quotation that proved her point. Rather, she made the same broad connections about the bill specifically targeting seniors. She has a doctorate in the field of studying legislature, yet should couldn’t provide proof. The day after she appeared, she was fired from her post – no one has said why, but I assume it was either her inability to articulate and prove her point or the fact that many of the rumors she believes were shattered all at once.
I had not read any part of the bill until this interview, at which point I read the ten pages they discussed to see if there was any evidence to support Ms. McCaughey. I found none. And I find it terribly hard to understand your point when at the end you admit it is “combobulated and incoherent”. If it is incoherent, how come you can understand it to mean what you want it to mean?
Finally, I will, for the sake of argument, follow your point of a decrease in the target population receiving healthcare. IF that is the case, why don’t Republicans say that instead of just seniors? Saying seniors will take the hit is a lie if everyone is going to. Those are just scare tactics. But that was my point about “life preservation”. If it is assumed that everyone will take cuts, the implementation of this “life preservation” clause is an attempt to have the seniors’ cuts be the smallest.
I didn’t plan on writing this much, sorry about that. I look forward to your reply.
August 28, 2009 at 5:39 am
Rep. Barney Frank, the failed Chairman of the House Services Committee should be put out to pasture for his role in the Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac scandal.
I don’t watch comedy shows. Is that where you are getting your info on this serious issue? Perhaps Betsy was fired for being stupid enough to discuss an important issue on a comedy show? I know I would have fired her for that reason alone.
The bill is over 1000 pages. I am not the only one who believes that this bill is a mess. Several Congressmen, including my own refuse to read the bill if there aren’t attorneys on hand to decipher the language for them.
I can read. I may become exasperated after awhile, but I can decipher health coverage language with a sufficient amount of time.
Sorry, I don’t speak for Republicans. I gather that you are a Democrat and I hope that you will not swallow this entire bill hook, line and sinker without ever reading more than 10 pages? Many bloggers are sifting through this muck and cannot make heads nor tails of it. There is no dire urgency to pass this monstrous bill that few have properly vetted. Your interpretation of life preservation is far from what the UR&M teams decide in government care already.
What is the emergency? If you have time to read all 1000 pages, surely that will give us time to receive answers for our questions, right? You won’t have to discuss this here, you can ask your own reps. Items about privacy for instance…Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and “other information as is prescribed by” regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for “affordability credits.”
Section 245(b)(2)(A) says the IRS must divulge tax return details — there’s no specified limit on what’s available or unavailable — to the Health Choices Commissioner. The purpose, again, is to verify “affordability credits.”
Section 1801(a) says that the Social Security Administration can obtain tax return data on anyone who may be eligible for a “low-income prescription drug subsidy” but has not applied for it. I am incensed over the lack of privacy in this bill as well. Perhaps, I am tainted by what I have seen throughout my lifetime. I am perfectly happy with my health care plan that I designed for myself. I am also willing to make sacrifices and prioritize my life so that I can choose what I want in the form of health care. I don’t need the government telling me what I need to do or how I need to make do with whatever they wish to offer.
August 28, 2009 at 4:40 am
NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NYT, LA TIMES, etc, etc, etc = ObamaMedia = TASS = Pravda.
I would gladly contribute to attorney’s fees in a lawsuit against the media for, say, inflicting intentional harm on the American public.
August 28, 2009 at 4:41 am
I just call it what it is…emotional distress. LOL
August 28, 2009 at 7:23 am
Death panel concept started out from Dr Ezequiel Emanuel, brother of WH Chief of Staff Rahm. The doctor is an academic, not a private practitioner. He is part of the White House health care advisory team.
Two very important articles he co wrote when no one was examining his ideas like they are today, but now which are very relevant to the agenda he has been helping to craft through his advice to Obama on the 3200 bill. Remember, Obama is not a doctor or a health care practitioner. He has to get his advice on the system from those that have knowledge.
Even the Boston Globe pointed out that health care rationing would occur, especially to the elderly.
http://finance.boston.com/boston/?GUID=9503010&Page=MEDIAVIEWER
—”The NCPA cites two scholarly articles in which the President’s health advisor Ezekiel Emanuel outlined how health care rationing could be carried out. Emanuel, special advisor for health policy to the director for the White House Office of Management and Budget, says young adults should be given preference over seniors because younger people have more years of life ahead of them. He also says that young adults should be given preferential care over very young children because society already has made an investment in their education”
—”In the medical journal The Lancet, Emanuel writes that if health care has to be rationed, he prefers the “complete lives system,” which “discriminates against older people … Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years.”
***”Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions” in the Lancet (the premiere medical journal of Britain) at http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf
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***”Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet” from The Hastings Center (a very well respected research institute on bioethics)in 1996 at http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Meet.pdf
—”This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.”
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Now let’s take a look at Senate Bill. http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf
Specific lines saying death panels or rationing are not written in such words. They are buried within the legalese, which gives a lot of wiggle room for interpretation by the government in how it will actually perform its duties under the bill. Plans for research, outcomes analysis, treatment methods, management plans, etc. are the beginning of how government will determine what and how the will manage YOUR healthcare. p240-s-260′s. There is so much more however.
Best line p262 #7.
(C) provide quality-driven, cost-effective,
culturally appropriate, and patient- and family centered health care;
Key word cost effective. Many things in health care are not cost effective. Health care is done to meet a treatment goal. Whether it is your grandmother or someone else’s. They get taken care of the best way possible. No one ever says to stop taking care of grandma because it costs too much. But guess what. The government will start deciding per their own research protocols what the best cost effctive care will be, ad that will be it. Not more than that.
That is where rationing begins, under the guise of “cost effective.”
August 28, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hey, you read the bill!
August 28, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Admittedly I have more work to do. I do tend to vote along the lines of Democrat, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I am one. I prefer to think of myself as a skeptic.
But, since I haven’t read enough to counter quote, I’ll end by saying two things. 1) It is a great thing that you’ve built your own healthcare coverage and are satisfied with it. But this healthcare debate is (or is supposed to be) about how to deal with the 47 million Americans not covered, and how to keep that number from growing. Premiums have spiked over the last decade and there is nothing to show that they won’t continue to do that.
And 2) If you don’t fully consider yourself a Republican, I think you would enjoy comedy “news” shows even more. As your post points out, most news medias have serious biases. While comedy shows tend to be liberal, they often do the best job of stripping down the news to what it really is. Not always, and they never catch all the issues. But watching a half hour after an hour of late night “news coverage” is a nice way to clear your brain.
August 28, 2009 at 1:39 pm
The 47 million is a highly suspect number. It includes a lot of people who are here illegally.
From CRS…
HR3200 does not require people to establish citizenship or legal residency before applying to exchanges for health insurance, including the public option, taxpayer money will certainly flow to illegal immigrants:
Premiums will continue to spiral as long as we want the best health care that money can buy. Technology is not cheap. Torte reform should be of the utmost importance. POTUS will not shut them down because they have consistently had his back and poured $$$ into his campaigns. And we are talking about a very long time.
I want to thank you for coming to the post. Come and hang out. We don’t always agree, but we do discuss. Most of all, we learn from each other. Who has time to read through 1000 pages by themselves and remember it all?
I don’t watch much TV because I work more than one job and I am into animal rescue and that takes quite a bit of time. Thanks for the tip, though.
FYI, I was a registered Democrat. No longer after having witnessed firsthand the caucus fraud.
September 1, 2009 at 7:12 am
[...] Hat tip, McNorman. [...]