Right, arlenearmy. obama won’t act because he and his leftist pals love what Assange ia doing to embarrass this country–maybe even jeopardize out security.
The BHO administration is not left, it is rather far right. For the love of god, one must read some basic political definitions of terminology if one is to employ it, as in “left” and “right”. One might start with socialism & fascism. The BHO administration is fascist: which is by definition rightwing. The BHO administration is not served by wikileaks: the leaks just showed the Secy of State signing off on treaty violations spying on the UN; they have previously shown war crimes. It is against the Geneva Conventions to fire upon unarmed persons attempting rescue of wounded, let alone fucking firing at little children.
The problem is that morons cannot think for themselves and instead rush to be spoon fed garbage, no, poison by some authority; rather than wikileaks giving the morons information. Apparently having to actually analyze information— that is to say look at its source and the history of that source, and then determine for oneself what if anything it means— overwhelms their tiny peabrains.
That pos BHO ran on transparency yet he passes executive orders http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-amending-executive-order-12425 and his administration passes and rules upon laws to prevent transparency as with this http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/citizens-opinion.pdf which gutted the ability to enforce the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the Lobbying Disclosure Act, and the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, and struck down sections of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.
Then wikileaks provides some transparency and people want to complain? jeebus freaking xmas.
Wikileaks provides transparency without any responsibility, and that is my beef with Assange. I find it absurd that he could not see what would happen to individuals. I can’t download them all, but within that dump there are obvious leaks that will lead to disappearance and death. I do take issue with what has been spilled. It was only a matter of time and perhaps there will be change after all is said and done. He is the messenger, but with that should come some responsibility.
Read this cable and tell me that this person is going to be difficult to track down. What makes what he did right? Not a thing imo. Talk about civilians dying, what happens to this man’s family? The sword is double edged and I don’t believe for one moment that Assange has integrity.
I learned a long time ago, criticism without correction has no value. I see a lot of criticism. I am hoping that the correction will come at some point in time.
When it comes to BHO, he will sell us all out to do whatever he thinks will buy him more time as a dictator. That government censorship of the net immediately hit sites that have benefited from Hollywood and recording artists. So I would have to say that it always depends on who is lining what pockets. It is really a sad state of affairs. I don’t see much change. I see business as usual.
Granted, the cables prove that most so-called leaders and politicians are liars, schemers, crooks, egomaniacs, and incompetents. Crap, I left out our government’s elites. Must not leave them out…cockroaches.
“Wikileaks provides transparency without any responsibility.”
How can it be responsible for that which it did not do? Those who created these wars are responsible for their entirety including the results of any publication of their deeds. Wikileaks is indeed merely a messenger.
I neither require nor desire to have Wikileaks be anything more than a messenger. Messengers are precisely what we need: givers of data. I do not require nor desire anyone to interpret the information for me or censor it in any way: I like and want raw data. It is what it is.
People need to learn how to reason for themselves and stop allowing their authorities to direct their lives down to their very thoughts: that is the root of the problem.
Come on Nom, the fact is that they put the stuff out…that in itself is an act. They did not redact. They just dumped.
I don’t think it is any different than sitting idly by watching a wife beater.
they did redact, and they requested the help of washington to redact (which was refused), and they have taken months to release the information so that it could be reviewed to avoid possible endangerment: the information was passed to 3 separate media sites to parse as well; you make no mention of this.
the claim of endangerment was made the last go around too, but our dear leaders had to admit they do not know of any instance where anything in wikileaks caused anyone harm; moreover, these cables are significantly less to do with the war than the last ones. Those who created these wars are responsible for their entirety including the results of any publication of their deeds.
These wars founded upon lies are evil: they are wars for profit and it is the warmakers who are responsible for the consequences of their wars. There are at the least hundreds of thousands of people dead already, many estimates say over a million. That is mass murder— perhaps even genocide— and warcrimes at the very least.
That is where I find an outrage.
“”The Founding Fathers originally said, they put certain restrictions on who gets the right to vote,” Phillips said. “It wasn’t you were just a citizen and you got to vote.”
“Some of the restrictions, you know, you obviously would not think about today,” he continued. “But one of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community.”
“If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners.”"
Nom, Rawstory always picks and chooses the salacious tidbits. As for the tea party. I would venture to say that they made a fairly honest statement. It may not be correct, but I do believe that a property owner has a greater vested interest.
Breads and circuses Nom…he’s playing it to us. Everytime we turn around, some other distraction or delay happens. Talk about never letting a crisis go to waste…they have become masters at this.
fortunately, they can sometimes be caught skirting the truth when they do this.
if people can be made aware they are being lied to, they won’t like it; the real determinant is people’s resilience to truth they don’t want to see.
The problem is that we are getting a snippet from time. It’s no different than sitting on a jury and getting a snapshot of what either the defense or prosecution wants you to see. Any information can be written to slant fact. Is it a lie or is it the truth? You nor I will ever have all of the facts. What we will get is a moment in time. The gestalt is written much later after the fact.
“The problem is that we are getting a snippet from time.”
I cannot see that people ever get more than this at any time; like always one must weigh the parties’ veracity by track record, probability etc.
You’re right about BHO. He has been using POTUS powers to systematically destroy the American economy, the dollar, and our standard of living. Let’s not forget that he has been stoking racial tensions while taking private property. I forgot he also invites the despots of the world to hang us out to dry via the UN. He really is something else.
National security officials say that the National Security Agency, the U.S. government’s eavesdropping agency, has already picked up tell-tale electronic evidence that WikiLeaks is under close surveillance by the Russian FSB, that country’s domestic spy network, out of fear in Moscow that WikiLeaks is prepared to release damaging personal information about Kremlin leaders.
“We may not have been able to stop WikiLeaks so far, and it’s been frustrating,” a U.S. law-enforcement official tells The Daily Beast. “The Russians play by different rules.” He said that if WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange, follow through on threats to post highly embarrassing information about the Russian government and what is assumed to be massive corruption among its leaders, “the Russians will be ruthless in stopping WikiLeaks.”
Same ole business Nom…it seems that nothing changes. Alexander Litvinenko dead from a slow-acting poison is widely believed to have been an assassination conducted by the FSB. Viktor Yushchenko in the Orange Revolution was similarly suspicious, and dissident Boris Berezovsky survived at least one attempt on his life as well. Assange may not be afraid of Barack (no one is), but I believe that his ego will land him in very hot water sooner rather than later.
someone releasing information against both the major poles of power is novel. as in damn near unprecedented.
that would by definition also not be business as usual.
I find Assange to be as much of an ego maniac as BHO Nom. His own people ask where the money goes? He’s not accountable to anyone. It is very much business as usual.
cryptome and wikileaks share a common founder and they had a feud: cryptome is not a reliable source where wikileaks is concerned; they have however stopped the incessant wikleaks attacks: apparently they realized they share a common line of work.
In January 2007, John Young, who runs cryptome.org, a site that publishes a wealth of sensitive and classified information, left Wikileaks, claiming the operation was a CIA front. Young also published some 150 email messages sent by Wikileaks activists on cryptome. They include a disparaging comment about this editor by Wikileaks co-founder Dr. Julian Assange of Australia. Assange lists as one of his professions “hacker.” His German co-founder of Wikileaks uses a pseudonym, “Daniel Schmitt.”
all of that (the same charge of being a cia front has been leveled at cryptome).
interestingly, Young made no such charges at the time he left, but rather cited the size of wikileaks organization and its desire to influence politics, its secrecy (lol) and lack of transparency about the use to which they put their revenue (which is to say, he was not in charge of it).
I do not believe Assange is cia (or probably Young either, for that matter, though he is associated with Lamo, who most definitely does work for intelligence).
it seems unlikely they would charge him with rape if he were their man: that’s a definitive bid to discredit him as a source.
more, Assange is obviously an eccentric; one imagines the intelligence community regards this as an unacceptable liability.
here is rightwing neocon loon and chickenhawk as well as former backer of Bush2 & current backer of Palin, & who coincidentally also supported McCain when Soros did in 2000 but coincidentally quit his support at the same time— who also edits the Weekly Standard, another tedious Rupert Murdoch “publication”— William Kristol http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whack-wikileaks_520462.html
who says outright suggests if current laws don’t permit the US oligarchs government from kidnapping Assange and destroying wikileaks “in both cyberspace and physical space” (one would say illegally but then there’s this unconstitutional sh#t that will eventually be ruled upon by our dear friends on the SC): http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/11/08-4) imprisoning him in a special cmu
that we should give up more of our rights in order to manufacture laws that do.
those in power in Russia and those in power here are peers even if they are sometime rivals.
in anything that challenges the overall power structure, my bet is they are on the same side against it.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/112910a.html “How is it,” Assange asks, “that a team of five people has managed to release to the public more suppressed information…than the rest of the world press combined? It’s disgraceful.”
yes. yes, it is.
It was only a matter of time Nom. 3 million people had access to that info. It only takes one disgruntled employee. BTW, I hear Soros $$$ is now backing Wikileaks. If true, this all makes a lot more sense. Complete chaos and bedlam which is his signature.
hear from where? Beck, that fucking tool? that is not a reputable source for anything, sorry. no one has presented any evidence of this.
The purported “Assange’s own people” are anonymous; that does not inspire confidence in truthfulness either. I followed the whole cryptome thing until they dropped it.
one does not manufacture false rape charges against someone on one’s own side.
and the right wingers need to remember that Soros backed McCain and his little Caucasus war pipelinistan dream as well: he is not leftwing or rightwing he is money-driven (war-driven) and goes where there is profit. Soros’ buddy Scheunemann is now Palin’s chief foreign advisor. Soros has stake in Halliburton, that would be the war team, not the antiwar team.
Beck is not the source Nom. Others are stating the same. You have your opinion of Assange and I have mine. We aren’t going to change them. As for the rape charges, anything is plausible with a guy who spends his nights on a different couch every night. He is a vagabond. I would think that some females might find him attractive. It is not as if it has never happened before.
I do not have an opinion of Assange, I have an opinion of wikileaks’ actions in releasing information.
I have seen no other sources than Beck and Beck quoters for the Soros-behind-wikileaks suggestion, and no evidence behind it: if you have another source or anything verifying it, name it.
I said I read it. Pakistan Daily also says Mossad helped on the leak. I’ll believe anything about Soros. He has a long history of discombobulating countries. It seems to be a sport with him. I believe the ties have to do with Iceland’s financial failure and Soros’ move? of certain info servers for Wikileaks to use where they cannot be shutdown.
Come on, you know that these documents cannot dump themselves on the net. Someone in Wikileaks put them out. They did it without any regard for the safety of the people it states it is trying to help. That imo is irresponsible. It is not journalism. If it were, many of the documents would not have been placed out there. In particular those that are so readily identifiable. Assange is their spokesperson, he is the main man. He was the one stating that he had the information. He is Wikileaks. It may have started out with good intent, but I see nothing good. I do see a young man who’s ego is going to get the best of him.
“It is not journalism.”
No, it’s not journalism. I have not said that I think it is journalism either. Why should it have to be to have value? I want some goddamned information. I can make up my own mind whether or not to believe it.
All of the wikileaks material was written by people who often as not had an agenda for writing. I’m not foolish enough to believe that because someone wrote something down, that makes it true. But I find it useful to see what is written, to analyze how an agenda is pursued. I value the information such as it is: as raw data to sort.
Whether or not he runs wikileaks, Assange is just a messenger. I am grateful to wikileaks for giving me this information, which I could never acquire on my own.
I think it’s entirely possible that Assange will be removed from the equation at some point. In any event, I hope others are inspired to also come forward with their information.
Morrell admitted that they could have, but decided not to because, really, the documents aren’t going to hurt us that much.
From what I understand, he stands a better chance at staying alive if he is taken into custody. Make no mistake, he has an international hornet’s nest on his back.
I heard on the radio that Kenya wants his ass really badly. Some of the cables are causing chaos within their government. Something about destabilization. Serious. Sorry, I’m sick and I drift in and out when listening to the radio. Horrible headache.
This is all playing out like some fabulous conspiracy book. In the end, WikiLeaks will become a temporary victory for transparency. I believe that it will have the exact opposite effect of what it’s mission is supposed to be. The result will be “further insulation of the permanent state from scrutiny, accountability or even self-knowledge.” Mark these words. That is why I think that the Pentagon doesn’t have much interest. It will be a show.
“I believe that it will have the exact opposite effect of what it’s mission is supposed to be. The result will be “further insulation of the permanent state from scrutiny, accountability or even self-knowledge.”
I don’t agree. wikileaks is doing it’s part to promote transparency and to inform.
the problem is not wikileaks, it is that our nations’s plentiful supply of morons prefer the false propaganda of “american exceptionalism” over the truth.
“To radically shift regime behavior we must think clearly and boldly for if we have learned anything, it is that regimes do not want to be changed. We must think beyond those who have gone before us, and discover technological changes that embolden us with ways to act in which our forebears could not. Firstly we must understand what aspect of government or neocorporatist behavior we wish to change or remove. Secondly we must develop a way of thinking about this behavior that is strong enough carry us through the mire of politically distorted language, and into a position of clarity. Finally must use these insights to inspire within us and others a course of ennobling, and effective action.”
Julian Assange, “State and Terrorist Conspiracies”
Much of what was leaked is pretty much everyday spying crap. I can’t imagine anyone in the world actually believing that it never happens.
he is an antifascist. I agree with him about the need to rein in fascism and the difficulties in doing so.
I do not regard the oligarchs running our country or our sometimes elected and sometimes selected and always bought and paid for tools as anything approaching a legitimate government either. I am all for everything he has written there.
regardless of Assange, I find information not merely useful but necessary to gain understanding; if wikileaks is a provider, I’m for it; I am an antifascist, and I agree with the excerpt you posted.
actually, Assange isn’t an american citizen and the wikileaks aren’t illegal, so shutting them down by force instead of coercing amazon is a legal problem.
I meant only the goverment was lying when it implied it could just shut down wikileaks at any point— as thought the matter were trivial— because undoubtedly there would be legal challenges; repercussions.
I’m pleased to see amazon’s cowardice and lack of support for free speech is biting them on the ass. I won’t be using them, for whatever small amount that costs them.
Twitter feed, a WikiLeaks spokesman suggested that Amazon was acting in violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which in part restricts the government’s ability to restrict speech.
Amazon is a private company and is under zero obligation to ensure Wikileaks First Amendment rights to Julian who is Australian. Amazon is exercising its right to free speech and association by choosing not to work with another independent organization. Assange should know that.
that would be true if there were not financial inducements and punishments the government can and does give to those who do its will and don’t do its will.
in any event, i hope it costs them more than they dreamed possible.
Do you really believe that Amazon would be punished by the government when there are enough people who can take their business elsewhere? Come on…the government punishes little people not big companies. It isn’t costing them much from what I can tell. Business is booming thanks to the holidays.
I don’t think amazon should have loyalty to wikileaks nor have I suggested it: I suggest that as a bookseller I would like them better if they showed loyalty to the free dissemination of information. don’t put words in my mouth.
if the oligarchs via the “government” made a request of amazon that it refused, yes, I think they would be punished for the refusal even as big as they are, there are bigger fish.
but amazon did not refuse, it complied, hence no penalty for it, except what can be provided by those like myself who don’t appreciate their choice.
“Much of what was leaked is pretty much everyday spying crap. I can’t imagine anyone in the world actually believing that it never happens.”
that’s true, especially in this latest information drop: a great deal was not even classified information and probably a chunk of what was classified failed to meet the level for actually doing so
yet there are also the proofs that the Secy of State signed off on illegal spying on the UN, and that Petraeus signed off in cover ups of civilian deaths. One imagines these acts are criminally actionable, if only anyone wanted to do so.
A great many people find these sorts of actions unacceptable but perhaps before would not have believed that our “government” had done so without the proof wikileaks provided.
At least it gives people the opportunity to protest what is being done in their name with their money.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/30/wikileaks/index.html
part of this is actually hysterically funny: “Then, with some exceptions, we have the group which — so very revealingly — is the angriest and most offended about the WikiLeaks disclosures: the American media, Our Watchdogs over the Powerful and Crusaders for Transparency. On CNN last night, Wolf Blitzer was beside himself with rage over the fact that the U.S. Government had failed to keep all these things secret from him…”
There are some areas whee I really do like Ron Paul’s (purported) views, I just don’t trust him. He could have run as the libertarian candidate, and then in 2012 we’d've had a 3rd party with matching funds. Instead he ran as a republican, which was worse than useless, the libertarians were infiltrated by the neocons (Barr) and neonazi would be close for the vp pick (Root); and he himself then backed another neocon mole for the Constitution party (Baldwin).
so now in order to get a 3rd party with matching funds that’s not clandestinely run by the oligarchs, one will have to vote green or socialist, and I cannot see that happening in any sort of meaningful way.
Thanks, Paul. btw, your son is an openly corporatist tool, exactly like BHO if anyone would look, but exactly like BHO, most won’t.
and now it is paypal
anyone with sense should look at this and say: that’s going to happen to everyone who defies them, and when there’re too many to control this way, they’ll start shooting…
November 29, 2010 at 7:43 pm
If O does anything to wikileak I would be shocked.
November 29, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Right, arlenearmy. obama won’t act because he and his leftist pals love what Assange ia doing to embarrass this country–maybe even jeopardize out security.
November 30, 2010 at 9:44 am
Obama loves these leaks…its a great distraction from all his other failings.
November 30, 2010 at 10:34 am
Yes, why isn’t it possible that the Wiki-Leaker is Obama! and his Criministration!
All these Wiki-Leaks serve the Obam-crat Party purposes after all……
November 30, 2010 at 11:40 am
There is more to come Buttered. Man this guy is sinking like Jimmy.
November 30, 2010 at 2:31 pm
I guess that is just what happens when you “call a rock a fairy and hurl it towards the nearest mud puddle to see if it will fly across…..”
November 30, 2010 at 7:02 am
You and the world would be shocked. He did write some mean memos months back. As always there are no teeth to back anything up.
November 30, 2010 at 8:32 am
Paper tiger…
“Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
November 30, 2010 at 9:31 am
Sounds about right Psstt. lol
November 30, 2010 at 11:39 am
The BHO administration is not left, it is rather far right. For the love of god, one must read some basic political definitions of terminology if one is to employ it, as in “left” and “right”. One might start with socialism & fascism. The BHO administration is fascist: which is by definition rightwing.
The BHO administration is not served by wikileaks: the leaks just showed the Secy of State signing off on treaty violations spying on the UN; they have previously shown war crimes. It is against the Geneva Conventions to fire upon unarmed persons attempting rescue of wounded, let alone fucking firing at little children.
The problem is that morons cannot think for themselves and instead rush to be spoon fed garbage, no, poison by some authority; rather than wikileaks giving the morons information. Apparently having to actually analyze information— that is to say look at its source and the history of that source, and then determine for oneself what if anything it means— overwhelms their tiny peabrains.
That pos BHO ran on transparency yet he passes executive orders http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-amending-executive-order-12425 and his administration passes and rules upon laws to prevent transparency as with this http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/citizens-opinion.pdf which gutted the ability to enforce the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the Lobbying Disclosure Act, and the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, and struck down sections of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.
Then wikileaks provides some transparency and people want to complain? jeebus freaking xmas.
November 30, 2010 at 11:44 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
I really hate html
November 30, 2010 at 12:02 pm
lol
You are not alone.
November 30, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Wikileaks provides transparency without any responsibility, and that is my beef with Assange. I find it absurd that he could not see what would happen to individuals. I can’t download them all, but within that dump there are obvious leaks that will lead to disappearance and death. I do take issue with what has been spilled. It was only a matter of time and perhaps there will be change after all is said and done. He is the messenger, but with that should come some responsibility.
Read this cable and tell me that this person is going to be difficult to track down. What makes what he did right? Not a thing imo. Talk about civilians dying, what happens to this man’s family? The sword is double edged and I don’t believe for one moment that Assange has integrity.
I learned a long time ago, criticism without correction has no value. I see a lot of criticism. I am hoping that the correction will come at some point in time.
When it comes to BHO, he will sell us all out to do whatever he thinks will buy him more time as a dictator. That government censorship of the net immediately hit sites that have benefited from Hollywood and recording artists. So I would have to say that it always depends on who is lining what pockets. It is really a sad state of affairs. I don’t see much change. I see business as usual.
November 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Granted, the cables prove that most so-called leaders and politicians are liars, schemers, crooks, egomaniacs, and incompetents. Crap, I left out our government’s elites. Must not leave them out…cockroaches.
November 30, 2010 at 1:51 pm
“Wikileaks provides transparency without any responsibility.”
How can it be responsible for that which it did not do?
Those who created these wars are responsible for their entirety including the results of any publication of their deeds. Wikileaks is indeed merely a messenger.
I neither require nor desire to have Wikileaks be anything more than a messenger. Messengers are precisely what we need: givers of data. I do not require nor desire anyone to interpret the information for me or censor it in any way: I like and want raw data. It is what it is.
People need to learn how to reason for themselves and stop allowing their authorities to direct their lives down to their very thoughts: that is the root of the problem.
December 1, 2010 at 9:33 am
Come on Nom, the fact is that they put the stuff out…that in itself is an act. They did not redact. They just dumped.
I don’t think it is any different than sitting idly by watching a wife beater.
December 1, 2010 at 10:04 am
they did redact, and they requested the help of washington to redact (which was refused), and they have taken months to release the information so that it could be reviewed to avoid possible endangerment: the information was passed to 3 separate media sites to parse as well; you make no mention of this.
the claim of endangerment was made the last go around too, but our dear leaders had to admit they do not know of any instance where anything in wikileaks caused anyone harm; moreover, these cables are significantly less to do with the war than the last ones.
Those who created these wars are responsible for their entirety including the results of any publication of their deeds.
These wars founded upon lies are evil: they are wars for profit and it is the warmakers who are responsible for the consequences of their wars. There are at the least hundreds of thousands of people dead already, many estimates say over a million. That is mass murder— perhaps even genocide— and warcrimes at the very least.
That is where I find an outrage.
November 30, 2010 at 1:53 pm
the government has already admitted that no one was harmed by the release of the previous documents
November 30, 2010 at 2:45 pm
“I don’t see much change. I see business as usual.”
it has escalated greatly.
this is not business as usual, but going to a rightwing, corporatist extreme not seen openly in many decades: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/denying-vote-propertyless-makes-lot-sense-tea-party-nation-pres/
“”The Founding Fathers originally said, they put certain restrictions on who gets the right to vote,” Phillips said. “It wasn’t you were just a citizen and you got to vote.”
“Some of the restrictions, you know, you obviously would not think about today,” he continued. “But one of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community.”
“If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners.”"
December 1, 2010 at 9:37 am
Nom, Rawstory always picks and chooses the salacious tidbits. As for the tea party. I would venture to say that they made a fairly honest statement. It may not be correct, but I do believe that a property owner has a greater vested interest.
December 1, 2010 at 10:05 am
tidbit? are you joking? the man said plainly he thinks only property owners should vote.
November 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm
On the contrary, it will give him ample opportunity to do what he wants in the name of security.
November 30, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Breads and circuses Nom…he’s playing it to us. Everytime we turn around, some other distraction or delay happens. Talk about never letting a crisis go to waste…they have become masters at this.
November 30, 2010 at 1:53 pm
he was doing that already without wikileaks.
December 1, 2010 at 9:37 am
It’s more fodder.
December 1, 2010 at 10:06 am
so what? it shows people what’s going on, and you admit the oligarchs will do the same regardless of the wikileaks info.
December 2, 2010 at 8:08 pm
http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/11/29/nyt-oversells-wikileaksiranian-missiles-story/
fortunately, they can sometimes be caught skirting the truth when they do this.
if people can be made aware they are being lied to, they won’t like it; the real determinant is people’s resilience to truth they don’t want to see.
December 3, 2010 at 6:54 am
The problem is that we are getting a snippet from time. It’s no different than sitting on a jury and getting a snapshot of what either the defense or prosecution wants you to see. Any information can be written to slant fact. Is it a lie or is it the truth? You nor I will ever have all of the facts. What we will get is a moment in time. The gestalt is written much later after the fact.
December 3, 2010 at 10:19 am
“The problem is that we are getting a snippet from time.”
I cannot see that people ever get more than this at any time; like always one must weigh the parties’ veracity by track record, probability etc.
November 30, 2010 at 12:36 pm
You’re right about BHO. He has been using POTUS powers to systematically destroy the American economy, the dollar, and our standard of living. Let’s not forget that he has been stoking racial tensions while taking private property. I forgot he also invites the despots of the world to hang us out to dry via the UN. He really is something else.
November 30, 2010 at 1:09 pm
As for Assange, I think that the Russians want him now.
Same ole business Nom…it seems that nothing changes. Alexander Litvinenko dead from a slow-acting poison is widely believed to have been an assassination conducted by the FSB. Viktor Yushchenko in the Orange Revolution was similarly suspicious, and dissident Boris Berezovsky survived at least one attempt on his life as well. Assange may not be afraid of Barack (no one is), but I believe that his ego will land him in very hot water sooner rather than later.
November 30, 2010 at 2:49 pm
someone releasing information against both the major poles of power is novel. as in damn near unprecedented.
that would by definition also not be business as usual.
November 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm
I find Assange to be as much of an ego maniac as BHO Nom. His own people ask where the money goes? He’s not accountable to anyone. It is very much business as usual.
November 30, 2010 at 2:50 pm
and Assange is not the sum of wikileaks anymore than BHO is our government.
November 30, 2010 at 6:15 pm
He is the head of the hydra. His own people have asked that he step down.
November 30, 2010 at 8:12 pm
cryptome and wikileaks share a common founder and they had a feud: cryptome is not a reliable source where wikileaks is concerned; they have however stopped the incessant wikleaks attacks: apparently they realized they share a common line of work.
December 1, 2010 at 9:56 am
Are you talking about their breakup?
November 30, 2010 at 8:17 pm
and on that note, I give you the Interpol international arrest warrant
my, that bill eliminating transparency for Interpol sure came in handy quick, didn’t it?
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/interpol-issues-arrest-warrant-for-julian-assange-20101201-18fw7.html?from=smh_sb
November 30, 2010 at 8:19 pm
oops meant to attach this to the “I don’t think that the US is going to look very hard for Assange. I do think that the Russians will.” place
December 1, 2010 at 10:25 am
all of that (the same charge of being a cia front has been leveled at cryptome).
interestingly, Young made no such charges at the time he left, but rather cited the size of wikileaks organization and its desire to influence politics, its secrecy (lol) and lack of transparency about the use to which they put their revenue (which is to say, he was not in charge of it).
I do not believe Assange is cia (or probably Young either, for that matter, though he is associated with Lamo, who most definitely does work for intelligence).
it seems unlikely they would charge him with rape if he were their man: that’s a definitive bid to discredit him as a source.
more, Assange is obviously an eccentric; one imagines the intelligence community regards this as an unacceptable liability.
December 12, 2010 at 11:56 am
http://cryptome.org/0003/wikileaks-lash.htm
some emails from Young to wikileaks and back
November 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm
here is rightwing neocon loon and chickenhawk
as well as former backer of Bush2 & current backer of Palin, & who coincidentally also supported McCain when Soros did in 2000 but coincidentally quit his support at the same time— who also edits the Weekly Standard, anothertediousRupert Murdoch “publication”— William Kristolhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whack-wikileaks_520462.html
who
says outrightsuggests if current laws don’t permit the USoligarchsgovernment from kidnapping Assange and destroying wikileaks “in both cyberspace and physical space” (one would say illegally but then there’s this unconstitutional sh#t that will eventually be ruled upon by our dear friends on the SC): http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/11/08-4)imprisoning him in a special cmuthat we should
give up more of our rights in order tomanufacture laws that do.November 30, 2010 at 6:16 pm
I don’t think that the US is going to look very hard for Assange. I do think that the Russians will.
November 30, 2010 at 7:58 pm
those in power in Russia and those in power here are peers even if they are sometime rivals.
in anything that challenges the overall power structure, my bet is they are on the same side against it.
November 30, 2010 at 4:43 pm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/112910a.html
“How is it,” Assange asks, “that a team of five people has managed to release to the public more suppressed information…than the rest of the world press combined? It’s disgraceful.”
yes. yes, it is.
November 30, 2010 at 6:20 pm
It was only a matter of time Nom. 3 million people had access to that info. It only takes one disgruntled employee. BTW, I hear Soros $$$ is now backing Wikileaks. If true, this all makes a lot more sense. Complete chaos and bedlam which is his signature.
November 30, 2010 at 8:09 pm
hear from where? Beck, that fucking tool? that is not a reputable source for anything, sorry. no one has presented any evidence of this.
The purported “Assange’s own people” are anonymous; that does not inspire confidence in truthfulness either. I followed the whole cryptome thing until they dropped it.
one does not manufacture false rape charges against someone on one’s own side.
and the right wingers need to remember that Soros backed McCain and his little Caucasus war pipelinistan dream as well: he is not leftwing or rightwing he is money-driven (war-driven) and goes where there is profit. Soros’ buddy Scheunemann is now Palin’s chief foreign advisor. Soros has stake in Halliburton, that would be the war team, not the antiwar team.
November 30, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Beck is not the source Nom. Others are stating the same. You have your opinion of Assange and I have mine. We aren’t going to change them. As for the rape charges, anything is plausible with a guy who spends his nights on a different couch every night. He is a vagabond. I would think that some females might find him attractive. It is not as if it has never happened before.
December 1, 2010 at 7:40 am
I do not have an opinion of Assange, I have an opinion of wikileaks’ actions in releasing information.
I have seen no other sources than Beck and Beck quoters for the Soros-behind-wikileaks suggestion, and no evidence behind it: if you have another source or anything verifying it, name it.
December 1, 2010 at 9:53 am
I said I read it. Pakistan Daily also says Mossad helped on the leak. I’ll believe anything about Soros. He has a long history of discombobulating countries. It seems to be a sport with him. I believe the ties have to do with Iceland’s financial failure and Soros’ move? of certain info servers for Wikileaks to use where they cannot be shutdown.
Come on, you know that these documents cannot dump themselves on the net. Someone in Wikileaks put them out. They did it without any regard for the safety of the people it states it is trying to help. That imo is irresponsible. It is not journalism. If it were, many of the documents would not have been placed out there. In particular those that are so readily identifiable. Assange is their spokesperson, he is the main man. He was the one stating that he had the information. He is Wikileaks. It may have started out with good intent, but I see nothing good. I do see a young man who’s ego is going to get the best of him.
December 1, 2010 at 10:27 am
lol, your source is Wayne Madsen.
December 1, 2010 at 10:54 am
“It is not journalism.”
No, it’s not journalism. I have not said that I think it is journalism either. Why should it have to be to have value?
I want some goddamned information. I can make up my own mind whether or not to believe it.
All of the wikileaks material was written by people who often as not had an agenda for writing. I’m not foolish enough to believe that because someone wrote something down, that makes it true. But I find it useful to see what is written, to analyze how an agenda is pursued. I value the information such as it is: as raw data to sort.
Whether or not he runs wikileaks, Assange is just a messenger. I am grateful to wikileaks for giving me this information, which I could never acquire on my own.
I think it’s entirely possible that Assange will be removed from the equation at some point. In any event, I hope others are inspired to also come forward with their information.
December 1, 2010 at 7:13 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-website-cables-servers-amazon
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wikileaks-chief-what-will-he-do-next-2148813.html
so wikileaks has been quashed at least temporarily by “homeland security” putting the screws on amazon, those spineless wimps; and the uk appears to be about to arrest Assange
December 1, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Better the UK than the Russians Nom. I don’t think it was us. Yes, there is pressure, but the Pentagon doesn’t seem overly concerned. Go figure.
From what I understand, he stands a better chance at staying alive if he is taken into custody. Make no mistake, he has an international hornet’s nest on his back.
December 1, 2010 at 7:49 pm
I heard on the radio that Kenya wants his ass really badly. Some of the cables are causing chaos within their government. Something about destabilization. Serious. Sorry, I’m sick and I drift in and out when listening to the radio. Horrible headache.
December 1, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Looks like China was the one that executed the cyberattack.
Not that we didn’t think that Putin had anything to do with the murder.
December 1, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I read earlier (at rawstory) that china blocked wikileaks http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/wikileaks-website-blocked-chinese-firewall/;
but amazon also cut the server here in the us & uk at the request of dhs (the guardian link above).
one has always presumed Putin signed off on the Litvinenko murder. nobody likes a defector.
December 1, 2010 at 8:52 pm
This is all playing out like some fabulous conspiracy book. In the end, WikiLeaks will become a temporary victory for transparency. I believe that it will have the exact opposite effect of what it’s mission is supposed to be. The result will be “further insulation of the permanent state from scrutiny, accountability or even self-knowledge.” Mark these words. That is why I think that the Pentagon doesn’t have much interest. It will be a show.
December 1, 2010 at 8:34 pm
hope you get some rest and feel better soon, mcnorman.
December 1, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Thanks Nom. This is a gift from the family at Thanksgiving. lol Some gift, huh?
December 1, 2010 at 8:57 pm
I hate being sick. I really hate it.
the only solution is to put a cat on one’s feet and go to bed.
December 1, 2010 at 9:15 pm
They like the head as well. I woke up choking on a cat tail last night. I guess they know that I need some warmth.
They really are smart critters.
December 2, 2010 at 10:11 am
“I believe that it will have the exact opposite effect of what it’s mission is supposed to be. The result will be “further insulation of the permanent state from scrutiny, accountability or even self-knowledge.”
I don’t agree. wikileaks is doing it’s part to promote transparency and to inform.
the problem is not wikileaks, it is that our nations’s plentiful supply of morons prefer the false propaganda of “american exceptionalism” over the truth.
December 2, 2010 at 10:15 am
We disagree.
Assange’s own writings are about bringing this country down. There is nothing objective in that.
Much of what was leaked is pretty much everyday spying crap. I can’t imagine anyone in the world actually believing that it never happens.
December 2, 2010 at 10:13 am
jmo the oligarchs have won, the country is now Obananistan, and the rest is just mopping up.
December 2, 2010 at 11:03 am
he is an antifascist. I agree with him about the need to rein in fascism and the difficulties in doing so.
I do not regard the oligarchs running our country or our sometimes elected and sometimes selected and always bought and paid for tools as anything approaching a legitimate government either. I am all for everything he has written there.
December 2, 2010 at 11:19 am
I think he is anything but that Nom. Like I said, we disagree.
December 2, 2010 at 11:36 am
regardless of Assange, I find information not merely useful but necessary to gain understanding; if wikileaks is a provider, I’m for it; I am an antifascist, and I agree with the excerpt you posted.
December 3, 2010 at 10:39 am
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/wheres-wikileaks-the-infowar-is-on-as-site-hops-servers.ars
this seems very good evidence they are not working for (any) government or intelligence agency
December 1, 2010 at 8:38 pm
actually, Assange isn’t an american citizen and the wikileaks aren’t illegal, so shutting them down by force instead of coercing amazon is a legal problem.
December 2, 2010 at 7:02 am
It is not the government Nom, it is the easiest tactic in the world…money. Business is business and no one is going to get in the way of making money.
December 2, 2010 at 10:07 am
I meant only the goverment was lying when it implied it could just shut down wikileaks at any point— as thought the matter were trivial— because undoubtedly there would be legal challenges; repercussions.
I’m pleased to see amazon’s cowardice and lack of support for free speech is biting them on the ass. I won’t be using them, for whatever small amount that costs them.
December 2, 2010 at 10:16 am
The government doesn’t have to do anything. Amazon is a business. It doesn’t have loyalty to wikileaks. It only has loyalty to money.
December 2, 2010 at 10:53 am
Amazon is a private company and is under zero obligation to ensure Wikileaks First Amendment rights to Julian who is Australian. Amazon is exercising its right to free speech and association by choosing not to work with another independent organization. Assange should know that.
December 2, 2010 at 11:05 am
that would be true if there were not financial inducements and punishments the government can and does give to those who do its will and don’t do its will.
in any event, i hope it costs them more than they dreamed possible.
December 2, 2010 at 11:20 am
Do you really believe that Amazon would be punished by the government when there are enough people who can take their business elsewhere? Come on…the government punishes little people not big companies. It isn’t costing them much from what I can tell. Business is booming thanks to the holidays.
December 2, 2010 at 11:08 am
I don’t think amazon should have loyalty to wikileaks nor have I suggested it: I suggest that as a bookseller I would like them better if they showed loyalty to the free dissemination of information. don’t put words in my mouth.
December 2, 2010 at 11:26 am
Not meant to put words in your mouth. This is a company in business to make money. Talk is free and money pays bills.
December 2, 2010 at 11:40 am
if the oligarchs via the “government” made a request of amazon that it refused, yes, I think they would be punished for the refusal even as big as they are, there are bigger fish.
but amazon did not refuse, it complied, hence no penalty for it, except what can be provided by those like myself who don’t appreciate their choice.
December 2, 2010 at 3:53 pm
I don’t buy through Amazon ever, so I wouldn’t be a voice either way.
December 1, 2010 at 8:54 pm
http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2010/08/play-nice.html
funny.
December 2, 2010 at 3:54 pm
OMG that is funny.
December 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm
“Much of what was leaked is pretty much everyday spying crap. I can’t imagine anyone in the world actually believing that it never happens.”
that’s true, especially in this latest information drop: a great deal was not even classified information and probably a chunk of what was classified failed to meet the level for actually doing so
yet there are also the proofs that the Secy of State signed off on illegal spying on the UN, and that Petraeus signed off in cover ups of civilian deaths. One imagines these acts are criminally actionable, if only anyone wanted to do so.
A great many people find these sorts of actions unacceptable but perhaps before would not have believed that our “government” had done so without the proof wikileaks provided.
At least it gives people the opportunity to protest what is being done in their name with their money.
December 2, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Very true.
December 2, 2010 at 7:53 pm
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/30/wikileaks/index.html
part of this is actually hysterically funny:
“Then, with some exceptions, we have the group which — so very revealingly — is the angriest and most offended about the WikiLeaks disclosures: the American media, Our Watchdogs over the Powerful and Crusaders for Transparency. On CNN last night, Wolf Blitzer was beside himself with rage over the fact that the U.S. Government had failed to keep all these things secret from him…”
December 2, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Crybabies, the lot of them.
December 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335244/WikiLeaks-given-100-000-encrypted-versions-secret-files-insurance.html
nice
December 3, 2010 at 2:44 pm
http://cryptome.org/0003/wikileaks-coward.htm
well I will have to retract my statement that cryptome has let up with the attacks on wikileaks
what do you think of Young now?
December 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I think that you and I will never know what is really happening. Stranger things have happened.
December 3, 2010 at 8:07 pm
There are some areas whee I really do like Ron Paul’s (purported) views, I just don’t trust him. He could have run as the libertarian candidate, and then in 2012 we’d've had a 3rd party with matching funds. Instead he ran as a republican, which was worse than useless, the libertarians were infiltrated by the neocons (Barr) and neonazi would be close for the vp pick (Root); and he himself then backed another neocon mole for the Constitution party (Baldwin).
so now in order to get a 3rd party with matching funds that’s not clandestinely run by the oligarchs, one will have to vote green or socialist, and I cannot see that happening in any sort of meaningful way.
Thanks, Paul. btw, your son is an openly corporatist tool, exactly like BHO if anyone would look, but exactly like BHO, most won’t.
December 3, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Like I said Nom, neither one of us will ever know the truth.
December 3, 2010 at 8:08 pm
I know the truth. I cannot prove the truth, but I do know the truth.
December 4, 2010 at 12:08 pm
and now it is paypal
anyone with sense should look at this and say: that’s going to happen to everyone who defies them, and when there’re too many to control this way, they’ll start shooting…
December 4, 2010 at 1:10 pm
http://gawker.com/5705639/us-military-in-iraq-tries-to-intimidate-soldiers-into-not-reading-wikileaks
this is truly disturbing